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Photo from Theide's Wehrpas showing
him as a Leutnant Oct. 39.
Born:
Fritz Theide is born on 21 January 1896 in Lichterfelde.
Units:
00.00.00-00.00.00 2.Batterie Fuß-Art. Rgt.Nr.2
00.00.00-00.00.00 Flieger Ersatz Abteilung 5
00.00.00-00.00.00 Kagohl 3 Staffel 17
00.00.00-00.00.00 Kagohl 2 Staffel 7
00.00.00-00.00.00 Kampfstaffel 11
00.00.00-00.00.00 Jagdstaffel 24 (Jasta 24)
00.00.00-00.00.00 Jagdstaffel 38 (Jasta 38)
00.00.00-00.00.00 Flieger-Ersatz-Abt.8 und ab dem 25.3.1935 :
00.00.00-00.00.00 Fliegerschule Braunschweig
00.00.00-00.00.00 Reichsluftfahrtministerium LA III
00.00.00-00.00.00 Reichsluftfahrtministerium Generalstab 3. Abteilung
00.00.00-00.00.00 Kdtr.Lw.Üb.Pl.Dramburg
00.00.00-00.00.00 Luftnachrichten-Schule 1 Nordhausen
00.00.00-00.00.00 Frontflieger-Sammelgruppe
00.00.00-00.00.00 Fliegerhorstkommandantur Memmingen
Pages 12 and 13 from Thiede's Wehrpas.
Rank:
00.00.00
00.00.00 Leutnant
00.00.00
00.00.00 Oberstleutnant
Awards:
00.00.00 Flugzeugführerabzeichen,
00.00.00 Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse,
00.00.00 Verwundetenabzeichen in Schwarz,
00.00.00 Eisernes Kreuz 1. Klasse,
00.00.00 Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer,
00.00.00 Flugzeugführerabzeichen,
00.00.00 Dienstauszeichnung 4. Klasse,
00.00.00 Kriegs Verdienst Kreuz 2. Klasse mit Schwertern
Leutnant Fritz Thiede (21 January 1896 – 14 June 1981) was a World War I flying ace credited with eight aerial victories. He became a personal pilot for Heinrich Himmler and Reinhard Heydrich in the 1930s. He served in the Luftwaffe during World War II.[1]
History:
1913
1 October 1913
Fritz Thiede joins the 2nd Fusiler Artillery Regiment
1915
On 1 May 1915
Thiede is transferred to the Luftstreitkräfte to start aviation training at Fliegerersatz-Abteilung (Replacement Detachment) 5 in Hannover, Germany.
The Kampfgeschwader / Bombergeschwader
On December 20, 1915, the "carrier pigeon departments" were renamed to Kampfgeschwader 1 (ex-BAO) and 2 (ex-BAM). On the same date the Kampfgeschwader 3 was formed under Captain von Dewall, the later "England Squadron". All combat squadrons were divided into six squadrons (called Kampfstaffeln or Kasta for short) of six aircraft each. By April 1916 the Kampfgeschwader 4, 5 and 6 b (Ayeric) followed, in June the Kagohl 7. During this time up to four Kagohls were used in the battle of Verdun, where they bombed the French rear connections. Parts of the Kagohl 1 (a half-squadron) also took part in the operations on the Balkan Peninsula from 1916 and carried out attacks on Bucharest and on the Salonika Front.
Put on the defensive by the Battle of the Somme and Verdun in the second half of 1916, the Kagohls' C-type bombers increasingly had to be used for "air barrier" missions or as ground attack aircraft. Against this background, among other things, the 3rd OHL (Hindenburg / Ludendorff) deployed at the end of August implemented a reorganization of the air forces as part of the Hindenburg program. By A.K.O. From October 8, 1916, the position of a commanding general of the air force (Kogenluft) was created, which was occupied by Lieutenant General Ernst von Hoeppner, who was Lieth-Thomsen as Chief of Staff. Combat squadrons 3 and 5 to 7 were dissolved on December 31, 1916, and their squadrons were converted into so-called "Schutzstaffeln" (Schusta), the rest of the squadrons were renamed in April as "bomb squadrons" and reduced to three squadrons each. The only exception was the newly established "England Squadron" (Bogohl 3), which had six squadrons.
1916
February 1916
Following his training, Thiede was posted to Schutzstaffel (Protection Squadron) 5 in February 1916. This squadron was attached to "Bombengeschwader der Oberste Heeresleitung" 2; Bogohl 2 and was directly subordinate to the German Supreme Command. Schutzstaffel 5 was a defensive fighter squadron. Thiede saw action over the Battle of the Somme.
A Gotha G.IV assigned to Kagohl 3 at Ghent airfiled complex in Belgium during 1917.
1917
October 17
Fritz Thiede is commissioned as a Leutnant in October 1917. He went to Jastaschule (Fighter School) to upgrade to single-seat fighters.
1918
21 January 18
Thiede is transferred to a single-seat fighter squadron, Royal Saxon Jagdstaffel 24 then based in Guise, France. Beginning on 26 June 1917, the squadron belonged successively to four different ad hoc Jagdgruppen established to increase combat power. It first belonged to Jagdgruppe 7 under Rudolf Berthold, along with Jasta 18, Jasta 31, and Jasta 36. Jasta 24 then switched to membership in Jagdgruppe 1 at Guise, joining Jasta 8, Jasta 17, and Jasta 48. Jastas 24 and 48 then were placed in Jagdgruppe South under Kurt Küppers. Its final parent organization was Jagdgruppe 12, where it served along with Jasta 44 and Jasta 79
16 March 18
Thiede claims his first victory but it went unconfirmed 1st victory).
Thiede with other pilots of Jasta 38. ca. 1918
22 March 1918
Leutnant Thiede is brought down by anti-aircraft fire west of Le Fere, but comes through uninjured.
21 April 1918
Thiede finally scores his first accredited victory (1st victory), when he downs a SPAD over Tricot.
Oberleutnant Fritz Thiede ca. 1918
23 June 1918
On the night of 22/23 May 1918, Leutnant Fritz Thiede put his experimental method of night fighting into practice and succeeded in shooting down three enemy aircraft. Other pilots followed his example and further victories followed. Unfortunately these successes were too little, to late with the failure of Germans May offensive.
Late May 1918
Thiede receives a personal letter of appreciation from Kaiser Wilhelm II for a double victory on the night of 23 May 1918. He would continue to score throughout May and June, becoming an ace on 15 June 1918.
Reports that he was able to land on Lake Doiran and survived. He was murdered while he was in the water.
The victory over Lt Cavers' Bristol was credited to Ltn Fritz Thiede, the Staffelfuhrer of Jasta 38; it was the fifth of his eventual eight victories.
The attack on the downed pilot doesn't seem out of character if it was the work of Thiede, who went on to be a pilot for both Himmler and Heydrich.
Leutnant Thiede reassigned to Jagdstaffel 38 (Jasta 38) in Macedonia and is given command of the unit as Staffelführer. Royal Prussian Jagdstaffel 38, commonly abbreviated to Jasta 38, was a "hunting group" (i.e., fighter squadron) of the Luftstreitkräfte. The unit would score 17 aerial victories during the war. The squadron's victories came at the expense of four losses, including one killed in action, one injured in a flying accident, and one wounded in action
September 1918
3 September 1918
Out in Macedonia, 150 Squadron RAF is assisting preparations for the British Offensive there. Over the summer, enemy aircraft had been scarce, but now appeared in greater numbers.
Yesterday, Lieutenants James Pomeroy Cavers and Frederick Dudley Travers were up in their Bristol M1 Monoplanes (C4907 and C4976) when they shot down a German LVG in flames.
Today the same combination were up again flying over Lake Dorian, when they were attacked by six enemy fighters. Cavers was quickly shot down and crashed into the lake. By all accounts he survived the crash but was killed by fire from the enemy fighters as he escaped from his plane.
Lt J P Cavers of No 150 Sqn RAF was flying Bristol M1C C4907 on a photographic escort mission when he was engaged in combat with 6 enemy Albatros fighters and was shot down into Lake Doiran. He survived the crash, but was killed by fire from the enemy aircraft while swimming away. The killing was seen by a patrol from No 150 Sqn, who engaged the enemy and were credited with bringing down four of them: Lt W Ridley in SE5a B163 was credited with one; Lt F D Travers in SE5a B4876 was credited with two; and Capt G C Gardiner in Camel D6549 was credited with one.
Frederick Dudley Travers
At this point, 4 SE5a’s and 2 Sopwith Camels, also from 150 Squadron arrived and a general fight took place about 500 feet from the ground and four of the enemy aeroplanes were destroyed. Travers claimed two, and the others were claimed by Lieutenant F Riley (SE5a B163) and Captain GC Gardiner (Camel D6549).
Some sources suggest Travers was in an SE5a, whilst others suggest the Bristol Monoplane. There may be some romantic notions about the Bristol as Travers went on to claim two more victories in it, which makes him the only ace in this aircraft if these two are included.
Thiede scores three more victories bringing his tally to eight confirmed wins.
Thiede's affiliations and activities subsequent to the Great War do convey a great deal--substantially more than he could have foreseen.
As you state, rightly, the strafing of Lt. Cavers is not at all inconsistent with what Thiede became later. Thank you for the information--
it is very explanatory! The only reference I can find for Thiede's Luftwaffe career is his suggestion, in 1938, to use a technique Gerhard
Fieseler pioneered in Macadonia. Fieseler mounted guns at an angle of 70-degrees so he could fly below his adversaries and shoot them
down while undetected--much as Albert Ball did with his upward-firing Lewis gun. The Luftwaffe disregarded Thiede's suggestion at the
time, and it proved unworkable when it was given a trial a few years later by night fighters attempting to intercept Bomber Command.
So much for the notion of the "Knights of the Air..."
1930's
First Thiede would go on to become the private pilot for Reinhard Heydrich and Heinrich Himmler. In
1938
Thiede recommended a "below the tail" approach tactics for night fighters attacking enemy bombers, but it was rejected, only to be revived during the Second World War.
Thiede served in the Luftwaffe during World War II.
In the 1930s, Thiede was a pilot for Heinrich Himmler and Reinhard Heydrich. During World War II he served in the Luftwaffe
WW1 Victory Claims:
1-8
Date
|
Rank
|
Unit
|
Cl #
|
Aircraft
|
Place
|
Time
|
Opponent
|
Conf.
|
 |
Lt
|
Jasta 24
|
*
|
EA
|
 |
 |
?
|
No
|
21.04.18
|
Lt
|
Jasta 24
|
1
|
SPAD
|
Tricot
|
11:40
|
?
|
Yes
|
00.00.00
|
Lt
|
Jasta 24
|
2
|
Voisin
|
NE of Erchau
|
23:35
|
?
|
Yes
|
22.05.18
|
Lt
|
Jasta 24
|
3
|
Caudron
|
Avrincourt
|
23:45
|
?
|
Yes
|
29.05.18
|
Lt
|
Jasta 24
|
*
|
EA
|
 |
 |
 |
No
|
12.06.18
|
Lt
|
Jasta 24
|
4
|
SPAD
|
Mechemont-Thourotte
|
21:30
|
?
|
Yes
|
15.06.18
|
Lt
|
Jasta 24
|
5
|
SPAD
|
Le Fretoy
|
21:30
|
?
|
Yes
|
03.09.18
|
Lt
|
Jasta 38
|
6
|
Bristol
|
 |
 |
?
|
Yes
|
18.09.18
|
Lt
|
Jasta 38
|
7
|
A.W.F.K. 8
|
 |
 |
?
|
yes
|
19.09.18
|
Lt
|
Jasta 38
|
8
|
Sopwith Camel
|
 |
?
|
?
|
Yes
|
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
* Victory not confirmed
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